..at the time of the end shall be the vision- a hypothesis

In Daniel chapter 8 Daniel has a vision from an angel about a Ram and a He-Goat.  We are told in Daniel 8:17 that the events represented in this vision will take place at “the time of the end“.

Daniel 8:17  So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

The Vision

Daniel 8:2  And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.  3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

In his vision, Daniel is transported to Shushan, an ancient city of Persia (present day Iran).   Daniel was by the river of Ulai when he sees a ram with two horns.

In Daniel 8:20 the angel tells Daniel the interpretation of the ram.  It is given as the “kings of Media Persia”.

Since the vision is going to become reality during the time of the end, and we believe that we are living now in that time then let’s look at some CURRENT “kings of Media Persia”.  The area we are looking at is based on the Media Persia area of Daniel’s day.

Daniel lived approximately 537 BC.  The Media Persia area from Daniel’s day includes the CURRENT countries of Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan – see below map of Daniel’s time – 500 B.C.   




Compare the above map from Daniel’s day to the below map of present day Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.  If we are now living in the end times then the ram would be strong forces coming from Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

In the vision, the ram is pushing west, north and south. The ram did whatever he wanted.

Daniel 8:4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

The last 15 years have shown the many countries in this area of Afghanistan and Iraq, Pakistan and Iran supporting the strong force of terrorism.

Terrorism definition: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Afghanistan Timeline – Taliban

Iraq – Saddam Timeline

It also says in Daniel 8:3 that one of the horns was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

In my opinion I think the ruling powers in Afghanistan and Iraq are the two horns.  If you take a look at the Taliban in Afghanistan you’ll notice it came up in 1996, after Saddam Hussein’s rein in Iraq, which came up in 1979. The higher or stronger of the two powers, the Taliban, which made a global impact with the attacks on 9/11/01, came up after Saddam Hussein’s rein.

The Talibanthe higher of the two horns – are a Islamist… movement that ruled most of Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001.   The Taliban was able to make a global impact with the attacks on 9/11/01.  Read about the world political effects arising from the September 11, 2001 attacks.   In 1996, Osama bin Laden moved to Afghanistan from Sudan. When the Taliban came to power, bin Laden was able to forge an alliance between the Taliban and his Al-Qaeda organization. It is understood that al-Qaeda-trained fighters known as the 055 Brigade were integrated with the Taliban army between 1997 and 2001. The Taliban and bin Laden had very close connections, which were formalized by a marriage of one of bin Laden’s sons to Omar’s daughter. During Osama bin Laden’s stay in Afghanistan, he had helped finance the Taliban.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban#Relationship_with_Osama_bin_Laden

Saddam Hussein –the high horn, but not the higher – was the president of Iraq from July 16, 1979 to April 9, 2003.

As president, Saddam maintained power through the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988) and the first Persian Gulf War (1991). During these conflicts, Saddam repressed movements he deemed threatening to the stability of Iraq, particularly Shi’a and Kurdish movements demanding independence or autonomy. While he remained a popular hero among many disaffected Arabs everywhere for standing up to the West and for his support for the Palestinians[7], U.S. leaders continued to view Saddam with deep suspicion following the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Saddam was deposed by the U.S. and its allies during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Captured by U.S. forces on December 13, 2003, Saddam was brought to trial under the Iraqi interim government set up by U.S.-led forces. On November 5 2006, he was convicted of charges related to the executions of 148 Iraqi Shi’ites suspected of planning an assassination attempt against him, and was sentenced to death by hanging. Saddam was executed on December 30, 2006.[8]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein

The He-Goat

Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Where did the he goat come from?  Daniel 8:5 says from the “west on the face of the whole earth”.  Where is this?

Daniel was in Shushan when he had this vision.  Get a globe and look at it’s “face” placing Shushan, which is on the western side of Iran, to the extreme eastern or right side of the globe where you can barely see it looking at the globe.  Now take a look at the far western side of the globe.  What do you see?  The United States.

The he goat comes from the United States.

Daniel 8:5 also says that the he goat didn’t touch the ground.

When the Taliban attacked the U.S. on 9/11/01, President Bush and the U.S. struck back by coming from the west, across the ocean, without touching the ground.  (Daniel 8:5).

Here’s another explanation on who this he goat is.

Daniel 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

The he-goat is interpreted in Daniel 8:21 as the king of Grecia.  Greece is often referred to as the “cradle of western culture”. So the he-goat may represent a leader of the current western world.

Ancient Greece is considered the birthplace of many elements of Western culture, with the world’s first democratic system of government and major advances in philosophy, science and mathematics.”

Greek-Grecia; áEllhn:  (2) in a wider sense the name embraces all nations not Jews that made the language, customs, and learning of the Greeks their own; the primary reference is to a difference of religion and worship.

Daniel 8:21 also says there is a “great horn” between his eyes and this is the “first” king.  First in the original Hebrew language means “strong”.  The strong king from western countries during the time of the War of Terror would have been former President George Bush, USA.  He is the one that initiated the war after the Sept. 11 attacks on America.



Romans 1:16 in the Bible explains how salvation comes to two groups of people, the Jew and the Greek.  If you weren’t a Jew in Bible days then you were considered a Greek or a Gentile.  In today’s world the kingdom of Grecia-Gentile would be anywhere except where the Jews live, Israel. 

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Interesting article about President Bush


Let’s see what the he-goat does to the ram.

The He-Goat and the Ram

Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

6And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

7And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

The he-goat comes to the ram with two horns and runs into him with fury.  Then the he goat comes close to the ram, is extremely mad at the ram, and breaks the two horns.  This leaves no power in the ram to stand before the he goat.  The he goat casts the ram to the ground and stamps on him.  No one could save the ram from the he goat.

If the horns on the ram do represent Afghanistan and Iraq then the he goat must break the evil in these two countries.  Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq, has now been brought to trial and executed.  The Taleban movement in Afghanistan has fallen.  President Bush has now been successful at breaking the ideology in these two countries and bringing the two countries to democracy.  No one could stop President Bush from breaking these two horns.

United States President:

“Make no mistake, The United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts”


Remarks by President Bush on Executive Order right after the September 11, 2001 attacks The Rose Garden September 24, 2001 (3) “We have developed the international financial equivalent of law enforcement’s “Most Wanted” list.  And it puts the financial world on notice.  If you do business with terrorists, if you support or sponsor them, you will not do business with the United States of America.”  But make no mistake about it, we’re going after them all.  And we’ll win, we’re going to win.  Terrorists are going to realize they can’t face down freedom.  Terrorists are going to realize they made a big mistake, they miscalculated America.  And I think they miscalculate a lot of our allies and friends, too.  There is a determined will, and we accept the challenge in this administration.

President Bush’s Second Term Accomplishments and Agenda

A Strategy For Success In Iraq. “We will pursue a two-track strategy for victory in Iraq, through political and military means. We will help Iraqis build a democracy that will be an example to the region, and we will support Iraqis as they draft a Constitution, vote in a referendum, and then elect a fully constitutional government. At the same time, we will hunt down the terrorists and train Iraqi security forces so that they can defend their own country. As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.”

Fact Sheet:  President Bush Remarks on the War on Terror 10/6/05

The He-Goat Gets Strong then Broken

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

The he goat gets very strong from breaking the horns of the ram.  While the he goat is strong his kingdom is broken.

Daniel 11:3 also talks about this same leader but in Daniel 11:3 the leader is called a “mighty king”.  As soon as this mighty king “stands up” his kingdom shall be broken.  If this “mighty king” is the same king as the he goat, and it sure sounds like the same king, then President Bush’s kingdom, the United States of America will be broken.  This state of broken happens while the king is strong and has “stood up”.  This may refer to the economic demise of the US.

“Stand up” is an action that will happen at a particular moment.  “Stand up” doesn’t sound like a process.  It sounds like sometime during President George W. Bush’s term in office he will take an action to stand up against those that oppose him.  Possibly against those that oppose him in his own country.

Daniel 11:3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

I think it is possible that “broken” may refer to the rapture of the church and it’s economic effect on the United States.  We will talk about the rapture of the church a little later.  But here’s a quick overview.  The rapture of the church is when Jesus returns to catch up God’s children and take them out of the world before God releases His judgment on the earth and it’s inhabitants.

If broken refers to the rapture of the church and it’s effect on the United States of America, then the rapture of the church may happen soon after President Bush makes a stand.

Three kings in Persia / and the fourth far richer

Daniel 11:2 talks about three kings in Persia and the fourth shall be far richer than they all.  Ancient Persia is present day Iran.  But the Bible may be talking about the Arab nations as a whole.  There have been three kings in the news lately, and a fourth, a Saudi billionaire.

Daniel 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

Three kings in Persia (the Arab nations), and a fourth far richer than they all.

Saddam Hussein, President of Iraq for the past two decades, has the dubious distinction of being the world’s best known and most hated Arab leader.

Yasser Arafat was born and educated in Egypt.  After the 1948 establishment of the state of Israel, he became commited to the idea of armed struggle to reverse what Palestinians call the Nabka or “the catastrophe”.  To this end, Arafat secretly founded Fatah, the Movement for the Liberation of Palestine.  By 1967, Israel had crushed many of its Arab enemies and captured the West Bank and Gaza. Fatah remained its only credible force of opposition and, two years later, Arafat became the chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO).

Mahmoud Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, was named as chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) after Yasser Arafat died in November 2004, and in January 2005 he won convincingly in the election for president of the Palestinian Authority.

Osama Bin Laden.  The fourth is not called a king.  Osama Bin Laden, the person responsible for the attacks of September 11, 2001 and for the outcry of all nations against terrorists.  Osama Bin Laden, an Islamic fundamentalist and the son of a Saudi billionaire, has been on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list since 1999, and the U.S. State Department has offered a $5 million reward for his arrest.  Bin Laden’s anger with the United States stems from the 1990 decision by Saudi Arabia to allow the U.S. to stage attacks on Iraqi forces in Kuwait and Iraq. After the U.S. victory, the U.S. military presence became permanent.  Bin Laden began forming his network in 1979, when he went to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets alongside Afghan resistance fighters known as the mujahedeen.

Look again at what Daniel 11:2 says.  It says the fourth shall be far richer than all the other kings and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.  Remember we talked about Grecia earlier.  Grecian countries are those countries that made the Greek culture their own.   One of these countries is the United States.  Osama Bin Laden certainly did stir up the world when he attack America on Sept. 11, 2001.

Daniel 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

2 Responses

  1. admin says:

    I think the two horns on the Ram talked about in Daniel 8 are Alqaida and Taliban. This is based on what I read in Wikipedia on the War on Terror: Barak Obama said, ″Under domestic law, and international law, the United States is at war with al Qaeda, the Taliban, and their associated forces. We are at war with an organization that right now would kill as many Americans as they could if we did not stop them first. So this is a just war — a war waged proportionally, in last resort, and in self-defense.″[58][59]
    Daniel 8:3 says “behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.” The Ram may represent all terrorist groups with the Taliban and Alqaida being the strongest groups represented as horns.
    An angel does tell Daniel the interpretation of the Ram in verse 20: 20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. So the ram itself is all the kings of terror.
    But the horns are never interpreted, however, the horn on the he-goat is the “first king”. If you look at the blue letter bible to interpret the definition of the original text for “first” it is “the beginning king” or the one that started this “war on terror”
    This leads me to believe that the two horns on the Ram are the leaders of terror that began the conflict which are the Taliban and Alqaida.

  2. Mark Eckert says:

    3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later. 4 I watched the ram as it charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against it, and none could rescue from its power. It did as it pleased and became great. 5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. 6 It came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at it in great rage.
    *Is it possible the Ram is America, ram is pushing west, north and south – That is how America started from the East and pushed West, North and South. If this hypothesis is true, and I am not sure that it is, It will be illuminated more over time as there is more to these verses. Potentially, this could be 9/11/2001 and America is represented having two horns or two towers on the side of a Canal, One of the twin towers was built higher and after the other one (Radio Tower was added to it to give it even more height. They came across the West as described and crashed and broke the two horns (Twin Towers) without touching the ground (Airplane). If this hypothesis is true, more will be illuminated later, but again, I am not sure it is true.

    Below needs further Illumination if this is true…

    8 The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them
    *Time will tell if this will be illuminated further and be revealed for us in the last days or just a very high coincidence to this bible passage. This passage has potential reference to the Anti-Christ by reaching the host of the heavens and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth. (Satan and his Angels). Regardless, God is in control and he has a salvation plan for anyone who will turn from their sin and come to Jesus Christ – God Almighty. Seek Jesus Christ , the Son of God, who took away the sins of the world and find a solid bible believing church who teaches the bible as the inerrant word of God and don’t just trust people who have ideas that could lead you astray which is why I also say hypothesis and it could be wrong and only time will tell.

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